From: Paul Smith
Date: 13 October 2011 02:18
From: Michael Colaneri
----------
From: K Singh
Dear Mike
Even Knauer (though known for HPLCs) are up with the Bioline
chromatography solutions.
And cheaper than GE.
With best regards
Kris
----------
From: Charles Allerston
----------
From: Oganesyan, Vaheh
----------
From: Mark J van Raaij
having experience with both, I find Akta and Biorad both do the job, with the Akta equipment giving a sturdier impression.
Neither of them is cheap, and given similar price I would go for an Akta when buying new - however, if a significant price advantage exists, I would have no problem choosing Biorad. We recently bought an Akta Purifier because the Biorad equivalent, after extensive negotiation, was about the same price.
With regards to repairs, I found Biorad is not cheap either. I don't have experience with Akta repairs, and hope not to get it anytime soon, as my current grant does not allow me to charge servicing contracts or repair costs to it...
Mark
----------
From: Kelly Daughtry
We utilize a local company and bundle almost all service contracts through them (Spectrofuge - RTP area, NC). Preventative maintenance and repairs are covered on ATKAs, centrifuges, scintillation counters and so on (pretty much all major equipment, minus x-rays of course). Being local, they schedule appointments much sooner than GE as well.
*******************************************************
Kelly Daughtry, Ph.D.
Post-Doctoral Fellow, Raetz Lab
Biochemistry Department
Duke University
Alex H. Sands, Jr. Building
303 Research Drive
RM 250
Durham, NC 27710
P: 919-684-5178
*******************************************************
----------
From: Ed Pozharski
Personally, my experience with Biorad was very positive. For instance,
we had the switch valve motor burn out and they sent us the motor for
$150 or so while they could have charged us full price of the valve
(which is couple of grand if I remember correctly). I was, of course,
blessed by having a postdoc who knew how to use a soldering iron.
I also remember that they sent us the replacement UnoQ column for free
no questions asked. In a similar situation the brand new monoQ was
having three times higher backpressure over the specs, and Pharmacia/GE
answer was "stuff happens".
As far as design goes, I haven't usede Akta for few years, but I do
remember few ruined columns when air was pushed into them once the
buffer ran out (human error, of course). Due to different pump design,
this never happens on DuoFlow. It was also true at the time that unless
you take the paper filter out, Akta would give a backpressure spike when
the pistons switch, rendering backpressure limits useless.
As a personal touch, I also find Biorad software much more intuitive.
This discussion, of course, is similar to comparing car brands -
experiences differ.
Cheers,
Ed.
--
"I'd jump in myself, if I weren't so good at whistling."
Julian, King of Lemurs
----------
From: Dima Klenchin
What mystifies me is a need for a service maintenance contract at all. Has hardware become so much less reliable than in the past?
Granted, this Akta line is confusing but my impression that it is three completely different machines, based on peristaltic pump, FPLC glass pumps and conventional HPLC pumps. In about 20 years next to a working old-style FPLC and two HPLC setups (Waters and Gilson), I haven't seen a single service call. Just about the only maintenance FPLC requires is changing pump seals, changing lamp in UV monitor and maybe changing valve distribution plate (all trivial even for a hardware-challenged person like me). In all these years I saw one thing wrong with HPLC - pump head ceased (related to a negligent care) and needed to be replaced completely. Well, and UV lamp replacements. That's it.
So, what are these magic Akta components that need constant care and repairs?
BTW, agree on Bio-Rad's software. Always felt that it is much more intuitive than Pharmacia's equivalents.
- Dima
----------
From: Jon Schuermann
I have used and worked on both the Bio-Rad and Akta systems. It is really a matter of opinion, but they both get the job done.
Exterior:
The Akta systems look nice with metal exteriors while the Bio-Rads look a little cheap being plastic. Both are really heavy, though.
Interior:
Once you take the covers off to do work on either systems the main components are metal on both systems. The systems are pretty simple on the insides, basically a pump and valves. Replacing the seals in either system was simple. I think the only tool required was a #2 Philips screw driver. If I remember correctly, the seals were between $50-100 for either system (which I thought was a lot for rubber seals).
Software:
The Akta software is complex, but once you figure out how to use all the submenus and screens it isn't a big deal, although it is more tedious to setup users and runs, initially. The Bio-Rad software is very simple and easy to use right out of the box but doesn't offer as many tools, which some people don't care about anyway.
Summary:
Parts are expensive for both systems, but I found it easier to find the parts for the Bio-Rad. I think they support older systems for longer periods of time. The Atka was much more expensive for columns, but we bought adaptors and could use the Bio-Rad columns on either system. I think the Bio-Rad columns were almost half the price, and the run plots looked the same.
Reliability for both systems was pretty good as long as they are taken care of and kept clean. The Bio-Rad components feel cheaper and simpler since they are plastic (at least on the outside), but I never noticed any difference in longevity. The key is to keep the systems clean!
I think their preventative maintenance/service is just changing the filters, seals, and UV light. We didn't buy the expensive UV bulbs until they burned out without ill effects. The UV bulbs had a much shorter life span when the systems resided in a cold room. You may be able to find a Bio-Rad or Akta system at your university surplus supply warehouse. I have found 2 there before and they both worked fine. We used them for parts since they were missing a few key pieces.
Jon
--
Jonathan P. Schuermann, Ph. D.
Beamline Scientist
NE-CAT, Building 436E
Advanced Photon Source (APS)
Argonne National Laboratory
9700 South Cass Avenue
Argonne, IL 60439
Date: 13 October 2011 02:18
Michael,
Unfortunately, I actually don't know who serves these machines apart from GE.
Because you brought up the subject of GE equipment and service, I thought I would ask the community about the best options for routine crystallographic scale FPLC.
In my opinion, following the takeover of Pharmacia by GE the the price of GE machines, replacement parts, and service has skyrocketed and GE service reps seem determined to squeeze and extort every dollar they can. Personally, I'd love to never do business with GE again.
However, in some ways, they are the only game in town. GE is the de facto standard for our line of work and the Akta line are very good machines. However, GE's consistent price gouging and outright crooked service practices encourage me look elsewhere.
I've used systems from AP-biotech (junk) and have heard some good things about Bio-rad. What does the community at large think? Are there other good options? Does anyone have some spare millions and manufacturing connections in India/China to consider starting a competing company?
Sorry to hijack your thread Michael. Let me know what you find out. The less money I send to GE the better.
--Paul
From: Michael Colaneri
Dear all,
We have an AktaPrime and GE Lifesciences stop servicing these instruments because they are getting old. Does anyone know of a third party company that gives contracts to maintain these instruments? Thank you.
Mike Colaneri
We have an AktaPrime and GE Lifesciences stop servicing these instruments because they are getting old. Does anyone know of a third party company that gives contracts to maintain these instruments? Thank you.
Mike Colaneri
----------
From: K Singh
Dear Mike
Even Knauer (though known for HPLCs) are up with the Bioline
chromatography solutions.
And cheaper than GE.
With best regards
Kris
----------
From: Charles Allerston
Hi,
Before coming to my current lab, I had used a Prime for a couple of years. Did the job, no complaints. Since being exposed to the Akta Express though, I would have to say that this is a great machine for purification of multiple constructs at the same(ish) time and I would really, really miss it if I had to go back to Prime/Purifier. Also using automatic runs combining several columns is also a great bonus. I would like to sort-of hijack/add to this thread (again) and ask of alternatives to this machine specifically, and people's experiences with it please?
cheers
charlie
Dr. Charles Allerston
Genome Integrity & Repair
Structural Genomics Consortium
Nuffield Department of Medicine
Old Road Campus
University of Oxford
OX3 7DQ
http://www.thesgc.org/scientists/groups/oxford/genome-integrity-and-repair
From: Oganesyan, Vaheh
GE has a policy on Product Obsolescence, which, afaik, means that service contracts will not be issued to those instruments that were discontinued 7 years ago. Among instruments affected by this deadline are "AktaPrime INCL", "AktaPrime EXCL" and "AktaPrime COMPLETE". You have time to service these chromatography systems until April 2012. After that time GE will offer service upon the availability of parts. "AktaPrime Plus" is still good to go.
I know all these because I've got a letter from GE regarding my AktaPrime.
HTH,
Vaheh
----------
From: Mark J van Raaij
having experience with both, I find Akta and Biorad both do the job, with the Akta equipment giving a sturdier impression.
Neither of them is cheap, and given similar price I would go for an Akta when buying new - however, if a significant price advantage exists, I would have no problem choosing Biorad. We recently bought an Akta Purifier because the Biorad equivalent, after extensive negotiation, was about the same price.
With regards to repairs, I found Biorad is not cheap either. I don't have experience with Akta repairs, and hope not to get it anytime soon, as my current grant does not allow me to charge servicing contracts or repair costs to it...
Mark
----------
From: Kelly Daughtry
We utilize a local company and bundle almost all service contracts through them (Spectrofuge - RTP area, NC). Preventative maintenance and repairs are covered on ATKAs, centrifuges, scintillation counters and so on (pretty much all major equipment, minus x-rays of course). Being local, they schedule appointments much sooner than GE as well.
It could be useful to see if such a company is located near you.
Kelly
*******************************************************
Kelly Daughtry, Ph.D.
Post-Doctoral Fellow, Raetz Lab
Biochemistry Department
Duke University
Alex H. Sands, Jr. Building
303 Research Drive
RM 250
Durham, NC 27710
P: 919-684-5178
*******************************************************
----------
From: Ed Pozharski
Personally, my experience with Biorad was very positive. For instance,
we had the switch valve motor burn out and they sent us the motor for
$150 or so while they could have charged us full price of the valve
(which is couple of grand if I remember correctly). I was, of course,
blessed by having a postdoc who knew how to use a soldering iron.
I also remember that they sent us the replacement UnoQ column for free
no questions asked. In a similar situation the brand new monoQ was
having three times higher backpressure over the specs, and Pharmacia/GE
answer was "stuff happens".
As far as design goes, I haven't usede Akta for few years, but I do
remember few ruined columns when air was pushed into them once the
buffer ran out (human error, of course). Due to different pump design,
this never happens on DuoFlow. It was also true at the time that unless
you take the paper filter out, Akta would give a backpressure spike when
the pistons switch, rendering backpressure limits useless.
As a personal touch, I also find Biorad software much more intuitive.
This discussion, of course, is similar to comparing car brands -
experiences differ.
Cheers,
Ed.
--
"I'd jump in myself, if I weren't so good at whistling."
Julian, King of Lemurs
----------
From: Dima Klenchin
What mystifies me is a need for a service maintenance contract at all. Has hardware become so much less reliable than in the past?
Granted, this Akta line is confusing but my impression that it is three completely different machines, based on peristaltic pump, FPLC glass pumps and conventional HPLC pumps. In about 20 years next to a working old-style FPLC and two HPLC setups (Waters and Gilson), I haven't seen a single service call. Just about the only maintenance FPLC requires is changing pump seals, changing lamp in UV monitor and maybe changing valve distribution plate (all trivial even for a hardware-challenged person like me). In all these years I saw one thing wrong with HPLC - pump head ceased (related to a negligent care) and needed to be replaced completely. Well, and UV lamp replacements. That's it.
So, what are these magic Akta components that need constant care and repairs?
BTW, agree on Bio-Rad's software. Always felt that it is much more intuitive than Pharmacia's equivalents.
- Dima
----------
From: Jon Schuermann
I have used and worked on both the Bio-Rad and Akta systems. It is really a matter of opinion, but they both get the job done.
Exterior:
The Akta systems look nice with metal exteriors while the Bio-Rads look a little cheap being plastic. Both are really heavy, though.
Interior:
Once you take the covers off to do work on either systems the main components are metal on both systems. The systems are pretty simple on the insides, basically a pump and valves. Replacing the seals in either system was simple. I think the only tool required was a #2 Philips screw driver. If I remember correctly, the seals were between $50-100 for either system (which I thought was a lot for rubber seals).
Software:
The Akta software is complex, but once you figure out how to use all the submenus and screens it isn't a big deal, although it is more tedious to setup users and runs, initially. The Bio-Rad software is very simple and easy to use right out of the box but doesn't offer as many tools, which some people don't care about anyway.
Summary:
Parts are expensive for both systems, but I found it easier to find the parts for the Bio-Rad. I think they support older systems for longer periods of time. The Atka was much more expensive for columns, but we bought adaptors and could use the Bio-Rad columns on either system. I think the Bio-Rad columns were almost half the price, and the run plots looked the same.
Reliability for both systems was pretty good as long as they are taken care of and kept clean. The Bio-Rad components feel cheaper and simpler since they are plastic (at least on the outside), but I never noticed any difference in longevity. The key is to keep the systems clean!
I think their preventative maintenance/service is just changing the filters, seals, and UV light. We didn't buy the expensive UV bulbs until they burned out without ill effects. The UV bulbs had a much shorter life span when the systems resided in a cold room. You may be able to find a Bio-Rad or Akta system at your university surplus supply warehouse. I have found 2 there before and they both worked fine. We used them for parts since they were missing a few key pieces.
Jon
--
Jonathan P. Schuermann, Ph. D.
Beamline Scientist
NE-CAT, Building 436E
Advanced Photon Source (APS)
Argonne National Laboratory
9700 South Cass Avenue
Argonne, IL 60439
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